On today’s podcast, we’ve got a really interesting topic that we’re going to be sharing with you. Today I’m going to be talking about the mother wound with a fabulous guest called Rev Chelle. Now, the mother wound is something that affects all of us because yes, we’ve all got mothers, right? We’ve all got mothers and we’ve all been raised by somebody. And even if they weren’t there to raise us, this will be affecting us on some level. So this episode really is for any everybody out there. But during our chat, you will learn some of the fascinating insights into the mother wound and how your mother wound could be showing up today in your life. So whether that’s imposter syndrome, whether that’s through your fear of parenting or pregnancy, whether that’s through how you overcompensate life, or maybe your lack of abundance, all of these things are tied to your mother wound. So, the one thing that I got from this interview with is that everything, all of the stuff that’s happening to me is down to my mother wound and also all the guilt starts piling in as a mother as well. But worry not. This is all healable. So to help me find out more about this fascinating topic, here is my podcast with Rev Chelle all about healing your mother wound. Enjoy.

Now today I’m going to be speaking to Rev Chelle all about the mother wound. Welcome, Rev.

Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here and very excited to talk with you too.

I can’t wait for this. I can’t wait. So yes, I just mentioned we’re about to talk about the mother wound here on the podcast. But before we get into all that, and it will be a fascinating conversation, I can be sure of that. Would you mind just letting the listeners know how you came to do the work that you do today?

Oh, gosh, it’s been a journey. Isn’t it always right? So I had a long career in finance. And maybe about five years ago, I had maybe six Okay, actually, that’s about seven years ago. Now that I keep. I’ve said five years for so long. It’s actually been two years since so seven years ago. I went through a pretty devastating life event. And it’s one of those life events where you’re like, “let me just reevaluate my whole life and see if this is what I really want to do with the rest of my life. Am I fulfilling my purpose? am I walking in my purpose?” And I wasn’t and so I started to put some things into place. I made a big move from Washington DC to Texas. And when I did that, I had the intention that I was going to go back to school and start to learn some holistic modalities. And so the first modality that I learned with hypnosis, and I knew right away that I wanted to work with women, and I wanted to work with women and trauma and women and, you know, healing from, you know, things that that kept them from being the best possible version of themselves. And I really enjoyed hypnosis, and I still do, I think it’s a powerful, powerful tool. But as I grew my business there was I felt that there was just a piece of the puzzle missing like I needed another tool to put with that. And so by chance, I had my own podcast at the time and I came across a woman that I was interviewing, who taught family mapping and family constellation modalities or more family constellation therapy. And before I was done with like our intro call for the podcast that we were going to take, I already knew that this is what I wanted to do. And I was like, Where do I sign up. And so I went through a year long training program to learn family mapping and family constellations and, and while you learn the tools, and while you learn the methodology, and you know, you actually learn how to facilitate it with clients and with groups, what I wasn’t prepared for was the amount of personal work that I would have to do to really be able to bring this work forward. And in that personal journey, I was just drawn to my own my own trauma, my own conversations around my own mother. And I decided that mother wounding was what I wanted to niche down and focus on.

A few years ago, I was I was asked to be part of an anthology called the strength of my soul. And before I even came into holistic work, I wrote this this chapter in this anthology called mitochondrial semantic. It’s complicated, the whole title of it. And it was a story about how I tried to escape the legacy that I inherited from my mom about mothering, and about our pain and our trauma and how I couldn’t escape it. And all I could do really was embrace it and try to reinterpret it. And it was like this prophetic thing that I wrote about the work that I’m doing now, which was, when I look back, I’m like, wow, that was pretty, pretty interesting. Almost like divine right?

It does feel like it’s a calling doing the work you do.

Yeah. Right. So when I found this work, it really just answered those questions that I had had about what do we do and how do we resolve this generational trauma that we so often hold as it relates to the relationship with our mother and the way that she related to her mother and going back generations and I you know, I try to keep it to, you know, you know, me, Mom, Grandma, maybe you go to great grandma, but that’s about as far back as I go. Other concentrators do it, you know, a lot further back, but I try to work three to four generations.

So when you talk about intergenerational traumas, what kind of things would that include? I mean, are there some examples that you could share so that you can kind of try and get your head around what you might be talking about?

So when it comes to my work, I defined a mother wound as any way that in a couple of ways number one, you may carry a mother wound if you were over mothered, or if you were under mothered, so that would be like the personal issues that you had as a direct result of the relationship that you had with your mother. What we started to look at intergenerationally is the ways that your mother came into motherhood, prepared to be a mom, which directly ties to the way that she was mothered.

And so these generational mother wounds start to really come alive in the mapping process where we can say, yeah, so I was abused, and I was neglected. And I understand that that happened because my mother literally had no foundation and no understanding of what it meant to be nurturing and what it meant to be to be a good mom to be able to meet the needs of her child to be able to not be emotionally dependent on her children like because that was modelled from her mom. And so from the scope of the mother will and that’s what we’re looking at. But intergenerational trauma could be so many things. It could be cultural, generational traumas, it could be collective trauma. So things like wars and famines, and you know, all the big things that happen in cultures that make our bodies respond to our environment.

So some people who’ve done some really good work on this. So Rachel Yehuda has done a lot of epigenetic. It’s called epigenetics is really what I’m talking about. And she’s done a lot of work within the Jewish community and how the Holocaust and survivors of the Holocaust and how their future generations were affected by the epigenetic traits that were inherited. Dr. Joy Degruy wrote a phenomenal book called post traumatic slave syndrome, who wrote a book about it, and the book is about the way that American slavery has impacted the black community here in the US specifically, there are lots of studies being done. There was one study that really studied the epigenetic traits that were inherited by the mothers, by the children of mothers who were pregnant during 911.

So there’s these things that really what we’re talking about when we talk about epigenetics, and the most simplest form is the way that we inherit the response that the that our mother created around that event. And when we inherit that it then almost prepares us right for that event also take place in our life. And it’s so much more complicated than that. And if somebody who really studied epigenetics heard me say that they probably go crazy. But like at its simplest form, that’s really what we’re talking about is the way that our mothers really, I choose to look at it as almost like a gift, like it’s a gift that they’ve given us so that if we experience something similar that she’s experienced, we have this like resistance or this ability to maybe be a little bit more resilient in that, right. But it also means that we get, we get that marker, we get that that emotional imprint of that event as well.

So that sounds to me that potentially we even though we’re primed to be able to handle this event, it also sounds like energetically, we might all be also be attracting this event and repeating the pattern more likely in our lives. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, so great question. And it’s absolutely fair to say so. Family constellation work, it operates with the understanding that all families exist under scientific what’s called a morphogenetic field. I call it a family soul. And so energetically we exist within that space that these patterns are then passed and transferred. And so anytime something shows up in one generation that is not resolved. it transfers down to the next generation until it is resolved. And so you can have these generational wounds. Go down through the generations until somebody is like, you know what, I think I’m just going to stop this pattern. And and and I think now is a really powerful time because so many people are understanding the impact of intergenerational wounds and intergenerational trauma. And we have the language and we’ve got the ability and we’ve got the understanding of what it is whereas like, our parents, and their parents didn’t have that same understanding and they would have looked at us like we were crazy. But now there’s so much awareness that’s been brought about this topic, that that we have a unique opportunity to really start to work in a generationally me with clients and you know, you also with clients

Everything that you’re saying, I thought, you know, obviously I can’t help but try and think about my own personal situation. I am very conscious that I was repeating patterns that were I was thinking, “oh my god, I am doing exactly the same that my mother was doing!” and I did a clearance piece of work around myself that I don’t know about three months ago to kind of cut all energetic chords and to kind of say, “This is it, this ends here!”. And that was such a powerful piece of work for me. And I was, I was an absolute mess that day, as I’m sure you can imagine. I lost my mother when when I was 30. So I did a big piece of mother wound clearance.

I did, I did this big therapeutic retreat for wonderful better word. And we had a Mother’s day and Father’s Day and and I really didn’t want to, you know, there’s a lot of kind of being angry for all the crap that your mother gave you. And there’s also the equal day on dad’s day, you know, and that’s why I lost my mother I didn’t want to have all these negative feelings towards her but it was actually really powerful process to go through to kind of acknowledge the negative as well as the positive. And and so having that experience more recently where I was like, oh, my goodness, these patterns are still carrying on. It’s a really fascinating everywhere. And if you do take a moment to stop and go “Whoa! What what are these patterns that I’m recreating?” How do I put an end to them and that and so yeah, that’s my question.

How do you how do you put an end to these patterns? Is there a process that you take him through to do that? Or is it just simple simply enough to say it ends here? I’m no longer going to repeat this I mean”. What where would somebody to try and understand that for themselves? But what would you say to that?

That’s a great question and I never would be so bold as to say that my way is the only way because I think there’s lots of ways that you can resolve those for yourself. My my methods and the work that I do carries the belief that our our wounds live in our body trauma lives in our body. And so oftentimes they sit there and they and they fester because a we’re not talking about them we don’t know that there they are sometimes our memories your subconscious are not memories. Sometimes the body imprint that we have that trauma is completely subconscious we don’t even know what’s there. So we we have these we create these patterns in our life and we wake up one day and we’re like, “Why am I like this? Like why do I keep repeating this pattern? Why do I keep, you know, going around in this circle?”

And so what we do, and here’s the process that I use. So family mapping is the process of using what I’ve been taught is to use is called the core language approach. It uses the language, the charged language that we use to describe your mom, your dad, your family, your grandma, your grandpa, like all these different facets. And from there, we can really start to put together and connect the dots to the core trauma that’s being held within the family soul. And then if we understand and we believe that our traumas then held in our body, then we walk through a process called family constellation where we take that story that’s holding that we’re holding inside, and we bring it to resolution outside. So if we’re working in a group, we would have you know, the person who’s presenting the issue, would choose representatives from the group, and those representatives would maybe represent mom, dad, whatever the issue was, if there’s, you know, an illness, maybe it’s mom, dad and the illness, however, whatever the The factors are that are cared that are affecting that trauma will bring them out in that setting. And what happens then is you as the as the person who’s presenting, I guide you into a very body aware space where you get to acknowledge what’s sitting in your body, I guide you into understanding what you’re feeling in your body and what maybe the sensation may be and how to work that out while you’re having conversations. And using healing sentences with the people who are representing mom dad or the issue or however it goes. The weight that we carry by the words we don’t speak, helps to like solidify that trauma in our body, right? So if we’d sometimes just get to speak those words and acknowledge, hey, I’ve been feeling like this for my whole life, or acknowledged I didn’t even know that this what I was feeling but me speaking it brings me clarity and it brings me relief, so it must be what I’m feeling.

So it’s having those conversations and being able to say the things that I we haven’t been able to say. And then the second part of that is, and sometimes what I do specifically in mother wound healing is I will then trade places or have the client trade places so that they stand in mom’s space. And mom stands in their space. And what happens because we’re working in an energetic field, when the client steps into mom’s space, sometimes what often happens is, there is just this incredible clarity about what mom haven’t had and didn’t have to bring. Why maybe she was the way she was. Maybe you feel in your body, the heaviness that she carried, and that brings a clarity and compassion for the ways that she was able to show up. And so at the end of this, what we hope to have done is a is that you’ve begun the process of working that trauma out of your body, and then I’ll give some exercises and some homework to continue that process. But then you’ve been able to build this bridge of compassion between you and mom, so that you can understand that mom didn’t just show up into motherhood, wanting to be the worst mom ever and wanting to abuse you or wanting to do all the things that you blame her for is that she showed up often the best that she could with what she had. And it starts to separate the needs that we have to hold our mom responsible for meeting all of these needs that we are still in the fight for because it’s really when we’re in a fight for something that’s really our inner child that is saying “You didn’t give me this, I needed this. You didn’t do this” So that’s that inner child fighting. And so what we’re doing is we’re we’re allowing ourselves to grow up to see mom as a whole complete person able to carry her own fate, right, able to be responsible for the way that she showed up. And then we start to grow up in a way that we then can start to interact with our own healing process as a full grown up so that we can then meet the needs of the little girl inside of us that needs attention.

That needs nurturing that needs hugs that needs to be seen. And so when we start doing that for ourselves, we no longer hold mom accountable for that process. And our relationship starts to change with her. And our accountability starts to change with her. And the way that we set boundaries starts to change with her. And so the relationship just starts to shift. So if mom is living that can really dramatically affect the way that you interact, whether mom does her work or not. Because what’s happening is you’re shifting your internal story about the way that you carry mom inside. So maybe you have more compassion for her. Maybe you have learned how to sue that little girl when she gets upset and is acting out because there’s a need that hasn’t gotten that right. You learn how to meet that need for yourself and to show up and your own healing and your own empowerment. What I find so often I find this really interesting, right, because we’re working under an energetic and energy field. When we start to shift, mom almost instinctually knows that there is a shift in the energy and so boundaries start to be respected a little bit more There’s just changed just to shift because we’re changing. So mother wound healing from the perspective of the work that I do is always about how we shift and not how mom does. So those two things do with the system of the family and then as a clinical hypnotist, I then go in and work and it’s almost like the icing on top of the cake. How do we then release and resolve maybe some of the personal connections and triggers that we have to those emotions, right? So we start to do that personal work once we’ve done the systemic work of releasing that, that that intergenerational trauma.

Now you mentioned earlier about over-mothering versus under-mothering. I can imagine some people listen to that might be thinking, “my mum neglected me… ignored me … was really mean to me …” and all that kind of stuff. But actually there is this kind of suffocating and too much, you know, maybe, you know, being too generous, too nice, not allowing the child to grow, develop their independence or whatever. So, just really want to get your perspective on the over-mothering comment earlier.

Yeah, you really described it pretty well. You know, when somebody comes to me and I asked them to, you know, tell me about your mom, give me two words that describe your mom. And you know, sometimes I’ll get the answer. “Well, my mom is my best friend. Like, we’re so close. And I include her in everything in my life. And I couldn’t imagine my life without her.” So that too is a breaking the bond. Or I should say that she was a mother wound. And I say that because it is not normal. And it is not healthy for a mother and daughter to be best friends, especially growing up, right? And I think as adults, we can still you know, we can morph our relationship into being more like adults together. But as specifically as children. Your mother shouldn’t be your best friend and you shouldn’t hurt and you shouldn’t be her best friend.

Mom is an adult she should have her own friends because there is a way that you interact with your friends that you don’t interact with your child, right. And so if a mom is interacting with her child as she would her friends, there’s putting an overburden of an emotional need being met by the child to mom. And so what that does is it creates a child that has a built the inability to set boundaries as they get older. They get into codependent relationships, they tend not to be able to think for themselves. It tends to create this thing within them where they don’t know where they end and mom begins everything that every decision that they make is filtered through mom. And so there’s never this this opportunity to fly in your own right. Because you’re you’ve never been taught how to stand in your own energy, how to stand in your own space, how to trust your own gut, how to trust your own decisions, because mom has over mothered you. And that that can really affect people as they as they get into their career as they get into relationships especially. And even as they get into their own mothering.

Well, it’s interesting you mention that because that sounds like enmeshing, which is something that I experienced. So my my mother and I weren’t best friends because my parents divorced when I was very young. She treated me like an equal. And so I was consulted on where we go on holiday what colour we’re going to decorate the hall, what color we should get, you know, when I was like seven and eight. And so I was getting it was overburdening, you just talked about is very much. Yes, I can relate to a lot of that. But then she got very, very ill to cancer when I was 15. So then, and then and then she started getting very ill when I was 18. So as I grew into adulthood, there wasn’t really anybody there to call a best friend in that sense. When when she ended up dying when I was 30. It completely ripped me apart and destroyed my world and really sent me down on a spiral.

I think, you know, some of those things where I didn’t I was a confident person. I was successful in my career. I had a good job, I had all of those things. And suddenly overnight, I didn’t know anything. I was like I don’t know anymore. I don’t know anyone that you just described that as boundaries and not knowing. You know, I was I was fine when she was there, even though she was very absent because she was ill. But when she was gone my whole world collapse in a quite dramatic fashion the way that my brothers didn’t. He sort of carried on he had grief kicking around, but nothing like me. I was completely destroyed at that moment. It’s quite interesting.

Yeah, what you just described it. And so for those listening thinking, Okay, this is my mothering style, whatever, what what could be the impact? I’m just wanted to say that is the potential impact of what you could be doing to your daughter if your child if you do do that with them, because you know, let’s say you do do before your time, then yeah, you could, they could spin out really badly, which is bad to me. But this isn’t about me. So I want to sort of move that on.

And now I’m just thinking about I do a lot of work with mothers expectant mothers. And so imagine that they’re going to be some women listening to this thinking, “Oh, my god! What am I going to do to my child?” You know, how can I may be stopped from these patterns before my baby, right? You know, so for those that might be pregnant, or that are thinking about pregnancy, what what is what things are there for them to think about on their pregnancy journey?

I first want to say that if anyone is considering this question, I think they’re already really conscious about the way that they’re going to approach mothering right. They want to do it the best way that they possibly can. And so that’s a great place to start. Rather than the opposite end of the spectrum where there’s just, you know, maybe no care and no thought to it. I’m such a firm believer that I think that family planning should include, like this piece about dealing with our intergenerational trauma, because I think it would prepare us right. But you know, it’s not something that society even thinks about the willingness to look at, at this subject. And this topic as you prepare as you are preparing to have a baby or as you’re carrying a baby is automatically I think healing. Because what you’re saying is, “I love this baby so much that I want to do everything that I can to make sure that I bring them into an environment and a world where they feel loved and nurtured and cared for. And so how do I do that?” I think that you you work through the process, I think that somebody can say, you know, I might have these things, I want to look at it. How do I go about that and then find somebody who does this kind of work, either locally or you know, they can even reach out to me and we can we can do a deep dive into you know, maybe what they’re carrying and how we can resolve it. But I think at its core, the fact that you want to look at this means already that you are on the right path.

Now what about those that are I also work with a lot of women that are very, very hesitant about motherhood or about being a parent. Some of them have got very strong fears around birth or pregnancy. Some of them are got fears of motherhood, and I can’t help thinking that there’s probably some mother wound stuff wrapped up in all that right there. So, but I don’t want to assume. Do you think there is some mother wound there? 

Absolutely yeah. You know, my mentor she she says this really clearly she says, when we don’t trust mom, there’s a part of us that does not trust ourselves and does not trust our body and our ability to parent and so absolutely, if I if I have a client who has this extreme fear, or this, you know, deep mistrust about her ability to parent, I’m going to I’m going to absolutely look at her mother wound because what we’re going to look at is you know what messages Did you receive about what it meant to be a mom or to become a parent? What messages Did your mom talk about about pregnancy in general? Was it a fear based conversation? Or was it empowered based conversation? We’re going to talk about birth story. And what did you hear about it growing up, like if you were raised in a home where you heard stories that were just traumatic about birth? Well, God, of course, the imprint that you carry about about birthing is one of trauma and fear. And so we’re going to work work around that sometimes a big fear that I hear is I’m not going to do it, right. I’m going to mess it up. And so there’s this, this, this feeling that I have to do it perfect. And you’re living in this like perfectionism. And if you had a mom who was a perfectionist you expected like hyper expected you to, you know, be perfect and, and you might feel like, I can’t do this perfect, I can’t do this well, and so I’m just not going to do it at all. And it’s interesting how we can carry these fears we can get These narratives within us, and our bodies can shut down and not allow us to get pregnant. And so some of the fertility like the non specific fertility issues that may be out there really are, you know, completely the mind body connection, keeping you from experiencing your biggest fear, which would be to be a parent or to be pregnant because of the internal stories and the narratives that you carry around what that means in your family.

And what about things like abortion or miscarriage? Do you think there could be some mother wound things playing into those situations as well?

Yeah, yeah, there’s so many directions that that can go so I think the first thing that I would address is if we have had what I like to call it incomplete pregnancy, right because I don’t want to qualify abortion or miscarriage because they’re at the core, they’re just incomplete pregnancies. Regardless of the reason that that pregnancy was incomplete, there may be a lot of guilt, a lot of shame and an ability to to really process the grief around that. Sometimes that causes then there’s a couple of things. Number one, is it affects the way that the mom can be present in the next pregnancy. And so if there is this fear that this pregnancy is not gonna be viable or you feel guilty because you terminated another pregnancy or you just live in this space where you can’t be fully present for that pregnancy, well, then that starts to create what is what is the core of the mother wound which is a breaking the bond, it’s like you don’t have the opportunity to fully energetically and emotionally bond with that child in utero.

And then what also happens if you go on to have to have children, but you’ve not dealt with the grief you thought acknowledged within the family soul if you’ve not really embraced the healing of that incomplete pregnancy of the ending of that incomplete pregnancy. And the next child that you have, let’s just say that that would be your first live child, right? Outwardly, that’s your first baby, right? But there is a soul event what I call a soul event that’s happened within the family soul that is has not been acknowledged. And so really, that child that is alive is the second soul event and not the first. And so what happens in that subsequent child sometimes is that they don’t feel grounded. They feel like, you know, they could they could have, and I’m not saying this will happen, but what we have seen happen is their feelings of “Who am I to be alive?” they could struggle with depression, sometimes suicide. Sometimes there’s just this inability to connect with and ground into the family. Because really, they’re second and they have been been pressured into being first.

Whereas if there was a real healing around that first ending, then the second, the second soul event, or the child that does come into being can exist in the space that they’re actually in. Because within family constellations, there are what we call the orders of love, right? And the very first order of love is that nobody can be excluded. Everybody belongs. And so that means pregnancies that didn’t complete it means the uncle that you can’t stand it means the brother that you hate, it means everybody belongs. It doesn’t mean you have to interact with everybody. It doesn’t mean that you have to, you know, embrace everybody, but nobody can be excluded. And so if if we’ve excluded this initial soul event of that first pregnancy, from the story of your family, then that that second solo event, which is the child that’s alive, is out of place, right? he’s not he’s not in his rightful place, and that, that can that can sometimes be problematic.

So those two things are the ways that incomplete pregnancies really can affect the family soul. The good thing though, is that it’s healable. Right? It’s resolvable and it’s a matter of accepting what is and and really embracing choice, embracing the story as is and allowing yourself to feel whatever that feeling is, so that as you approach motherhood, after that event, you can do so with a whole and healed spirit and heart

I’m just curious around mother wounds outside of the obvious mothering areas such as pregnancy and birth, but maybe sort of in in other emotional patterns that we might be taking around our life where we struggle with having relationships, we might be terrible with money, or we might sabotage a lot, or we might, you know, have low self esteem, you know, all of those kind of things that kind of people suffer with other any any of those things I’ve mentioned, or maybe some others that are kind of classic mother wound things, or can it kind of leak leak to everywhere? Like, what what will we look at?

Right? You know, I’m a person that’ll you know, somebody who’s telling me something’s wrong, and I’m like, you know, that’s mother wound and they just kind of look at me like, “Sure, of course it is!”. But it really is. Because when we think about it, our first love and the first introduction that we have into the world is through our mom and through her eyes. So, yes, all the above. I have, you know, I’ll be talking with a friend of mine and she’ll be telling me a story and I’m like, you know, this is your mother wound. You know, your mother wanted to show it right? But it really is true. If we think about the relationship that we have with our mom it is mom is our first love. It is the first introduction to the world is through our mom and her eyes and her body. And so everything that she feels everything she expresses every way that she responds to us, it shapes the way that we view the world. And so if we were over mothered, if we were under mothered, that tends to affect so many other areas.

So in relationships, it affects boundaries, and affects you being maybe needy or overly independent in relationship. It affects the level of like how you attach in relationships, like, you know, we’re really talking about your attachment style is directly related to your mother wound from money. How it affects money is that if you don’t have enough love, and enough of what you needed in life, as a child from mom, it’s gonna be really hard to trust that you’re going to have enough clients that you’re going to have enough money that you’re going to have enough opportunity that you’re going to have enough, you know, so it’s these it just, it just subconsciously lays in your body and you interpret the world around you through that. If you had an overly critical mom, or if you had a mom who you could never please, I almost can guarantee you that people who experienced that will have an experience imposter syndrome in their professional life, no matter how accredited or how qualified you are, you’re gonna feel like it’s never going to be good enough. And so these these things tend to seep into every every area of our life.

Jeez! As a mother, you just think, oh, my goodness, what am I gonna do to my kids?

No, no, no, no. And that’s the thing is that it’s not about this is and I have to always say this way. It’s never about blaming mom. It’s about understanding the facts of the family so that you can find a resolution for it. Because every family out there has these stories. You’re not no one, no one is mother wound-free, I promise you.
No one knows.

It exists on a spectrum from you know, you know, somebody who was mothered really well, but maybe they had a long separation as a child, maybe they were in an incubator, maybe, you know, they were separated from mom right after birth. And that creates a subconscious understanding within the child that I can’t trust it. When I cry, that mom’s gonna be there, I can’t trust that when I need something that’s going to be provided for me. And that that early lesson, because we don’t have a hippocampus that’s developed at that, you know, as a newborn, that lesson of feeling alone and maybe a little bit abandoned sits in our body. And so what happens, we start to interpret the world about that. So maybe we’ll be really needy, or maybe we’ll be super independent, and you don’t need anybody because you learned early on that you can’t depend on anyone, right? And those those kids are usually classified as a really independent ones, the one that doesn’t need mom for much and you know, they’re touted as, you know, just super independent, but really, what they’re what’s happening there is they learned that they couldn’t trust at some at some moment. So but the thing is that these things are fixable. All these things are workable.

And as us right we do this this work, because we live in a family soul, when we start to do our work, our moms feel it, even if they’re not with us anymore because we’re healing the family soul. And our children energetically receive that healing as well. For a few reasons, right? They see mom responding to life differently. They see you not reacting in the way that you did they see you having healthier boundaries, they see you and all these ways that you’re starting to respond to the world that was different than before. And so nothing is not healable

That’s wonderful to hear. And I just got one final question I’m desperate to ask before we I want us to wrap up and that’s around physical dis-ease in the body, not just not disease but you know, like, conditions or skin or you know, other any sort of things that point to mother wombs, where you might just have recurrent like diabetes, or I don’t know anything like anything. You’ve got Is there anything that we can point to in that respect,

One of the things I didn’t talk about, but I’m going to share really quick is there there’s a there are four themes that exist within this world, right? Or work. A breaking the bond, which is a breaking maternal bond, there is emerged, which is living life like your parent, there’s a rejection, where it’s you’re basically rejecting a part or all of your parents for who they are. And then there is an identification. And identification is when you identify physically, this is when I was talking about nobody can be forgotten, nobody can be excluded. And identification is the way that an excluded family member is able to then show it back into the family soul. Those are really interesting cases. I don’t see as many of them but they do happen with another woman because maybe you’re identifying with a great grandmother or grandmother and something that that they didn’t have resolved, right, that does show up sometimes. So what happens often with illness and with a disease is if we grew up in a family, that was that the family pace, right was that people are saying Or mom has this illness, or there is this, this this illness that we have to consider and everything that we do, what we learn is that that’s how a family operates. And so we tend to go at that pace in our life as well. And what happens is we create these loyalties to this family, the pace of the family. And so if mom was severely depressed, and she had a hard time in her life, well, who am I to be happy and thriving, and who am I to, you know, have an abundant life, I need to subconsciously merge with my mom live life like her, and also have those same illnesses. And so these things aren’t conscious. They’re very subconscious. And what you find is that, you know, you have these generations of, of illnesses, of things that happen that are like really strange that just tend to happen generation after generation after generation. And those tend to be family loyalties or merging with are both of our parents does long answer but yes, it absolutely affects a really good book, if you want to learn specifically about constellation work family, loyalties and illness is even if it cost me my life. And it’s a story. It’s a book full of constellation stories about people who experience illness in their life. And this ties directly back to their relationship with their mother, or their father most often their mom. Yeah.

Brilliant. Well, Rev Chelle, this has just been a fascinating conversation. I really could talk to you forever, but I know it’s just really wonderful. Now if anybody I would imagine I’d be listening to this is like I need myself and brother wound healing session. So anybody is desperate to get get hold of you to help them with them and where can they track you down online.

So you can find me and a few places. My website is redchell.com so I’ll send the link so I’m sure you’ll have them on the on the show notes. You can book a consultation with me there. I love Instagram. It’s my favourite social media. And you can find me there. Also at red shell, I share pictures of, you know, my family and my dog and lots of other ones stuff and dishes that I cook. Because you know, I think I’m a master chef. Got a roast in the oven right now is about that. So you can find me there. And I’m really excited, I’m actually getting ready to focus group a project that I’ve been working on called mapping your mother wound. And the idea is that it’s a workbook that you can walk through the mapping process all on your own. And then once a month, you get to join a constellation alive, constellation via zoom. And then you get to constantly update what you have discovered, and discuss it and constellated and try to to bring it to resolution. And so I’m really excited about that. I’ve got two focus groups. So I’m getting ready to launch just to put the final touches on it. But I envisioned that by April, this will be up in live and so I’m excited to really bring that product to life. From there I, if anyone wants to do more work more individual work, I’m launching three modules called ending the cycle of your mother wound. One where we deal with really what is core mother wound healing. The second module we deal really with relationships and parenting. And then the third module we deal with what does it then look like to put the relationship with you and your own perspective, maybe do some greeting around it, and then build that empowered self that will allow you to repair and that little girl inside of you. And so those are the three three big ways that you can work with me and I also do individual sessions.

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, I’m sure everyone’s gonna be scribbling that down right now.

Thank you. So thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Thanks for tuning in. You’ve just been listening to me Alexia Leachman here on the head trash show. If you enjoyed the show, or Book clear head trash. I’d really appreciate leaving a review on iTunes or Amazon. Stay tuned for upcoming episodes for more insights, interviews and inspiration for clearing your head trash and reclaiming your headspace. Until next time, bye for now.