On this episode we dive into the world of people pleasing and boundaries – a complex issue many of us face, whether we realise it or not.
To help me, I was joined by Melissa Mahon, a true gem who has personally journeyed through overcoming people pleasing tendencies.
During this conversation we explored the root causes of people pleasing, discussing the effects – even physical symptoms – it can have on your life and how we can begin to address them through things like self-awareness and mental health support.
Dealing with People Pleasing
We kicked off our chat by examining the idea of people pleasing. Picture those moments when you say yes, when you really mean no. Or when you feel guilt when you prioritise your needs.
That, my friends, is people pleasing. It’s an unnecessary sense of obligation, often expressed through a sense of transactionality, influencing others’ behaviour to avoid conflict or dislike.
Boundaries Aren’t Barriers
During this conversation Melissa talked about how the ‘pleasing others’ mindset can lead to poor boundaries. Often, when we’re focused on keeping everyone else happy, we stop setting personal limits.
We might even start taking on other people’s emotional problems and spread ourselves thin, both emotionally and time-wise.
Melissa wisely pointed out that to combat this, we need to champion our own needs. She highlighted that setting boundaries for self-care is a vital step in managing people pleasing tendencies, and that it’s not inherently selfish. It’s survival and it is essential.
Confidence Comes from Action, Not Inaction
Melissa made an interesting point about confidence. She believes – and I wholeheartedly agree – that confidence comes from taking action and making choices. And I must add, making choices that are right for you, not everyone else. It’s often a process, and it doesn’t always come naturally, especially if people pleasing has been your coping mechanism. It’s tied to the limited sense of identity people-pleasers often have, making it a tricky but necessary component to their healing.
Healing from the Roots
The star of the show, however, was when we steered our conversation to the ideas of self-awareness and authenticity. If you’re struggling with people pleasing, it’s crucial to understand your personal values. You need to grasp the foundation of self-awareness to move towards authenticity.
Don’t let fear of the unknown hold you hostage. Embrace small changes, which can progressively build evidence towards your growth.
During our enlightening discussion, we also ventured into the realm of the nervous system. Melissa shared how healing from people pleasing tendencies could regulate your nervous system, allowing you to respond to situations mindfully.
Join the Healing Journey
Such a transformation can open up a world of advantages. Lasting peace, less reactivity, and improved decision-making – just to name a few. I wouldn’t want anyone missing out on that, which is why I have something special for you.
Allow me to formally invite you to join my self-healing community, the Clearance Club. This inclusive club is everything you need to clear your head trash and heal wounds. With monthly group calls, the Clearance Club is a collaborative journey to mental and emotional freedom. If this sounds like something you want to be a part of, seek to learn more at https://clearyourheadtrash.com/club/.
Be Your Own Advocate
Remember, the journey to overcoming people pleasing isn’t just about learning to say no. It’s an exploration into feelings of worthiness, past traumas and limiting beliefs. The objective is not to shun others but to advocate for yourself with the same compassion you’ve always shown others. This journey won’t just transform you; it might even inspire those around you, too.
As always, don’t hesitate to reach out, and lots of love & healing till next time. ❤️
About Melissa
Melissa is a Boundaries and Empowerment Coach with a passion for helping her clients overcome people pleasing and burnout to live a life that actually feels good to them. She’s a former registered massage therapist who saw over and over in her massage clients the physical toll that self abandoning and people pleasing was taking on the bodies of her clients.
Tired of putting bandaids on people’s physical symptoms but never getting to the roots, she turned to coaching and found her passion in helping create the change she wanted to see in the world.
Connect with Melissa:
Instagram: www.instagram.com/solfirecoaching
Facebook: www.facebook.com/solfirecoach
Website: www.solfirecoaching.com
Episode Time Stamps
00:00 “Unpacking people pleasing with queen Melissa”
04:25 Transition from people pleaser to impactful coach.
07:52 Behaviour shaped to please others, lack boundaries.
10:12 Poor boundaries cause detrimental impact on self.
13:18 Be kind to yourself, treat yourself gently.
16:49 Various forms of trauma impact people differently.
19:23 Mums’ sacrifices shape our attitudes and behaviours.
25:42 Setting boundaries brings peace and open dialogue.
29:16 People pleasing leads to overworking and imbalance.
30:50 Setting boundaries at work can be challenging.
35:58 Prepare, cover yourself, communicate effectively, take responsibility.
38:32 Lack of identity leads to confidence issues.
40:21 Establish strong sense of self before setting boundaries.
45:40 Understanding roots, boundaries, self-discovery, authenticity crucial. Learning body’s response key to overcoming people-pleasing.
46:26 Understanding panic reactions and learning to regulate.
50:00 Join my 14-day healing experience from March 19th.
Episode Transcript
Alexia Leachman [00:00:05]:
You’re listening to the Head Trash healing show with me, Alexia Leachman, author of Clear your Head Trash and developer of Head Trash Clearance. A potent healing tool that’s easy to use. Head Trash is the home of healing, where you can access self healing tools.
Alexia Leachman [00:00:17]:
And resources to help you improve your.
Alexia Leachman [00:00:20]:
Mental fitness, emotional well being, and accelerate your spiritual growth. This podcast is where I like to share insights, stories and interviews to inspire you on your healing journey. And now for today’s show.
Alexia Leachman [00:00:34]:
Hello and welcome back to the Head Trash and Healing show. My name is Alexa Leach and thank you so much for joining me today. Now on today’s show, we’re going to be diving into the topic of people pleasing. So is this something that you do? Do you have an inner people pleaser that just needs to be tamed? Maybe you keep seeking approval. Maybe you just can’t say no. Well, don’t say no to today’s episode because I’m joined by the queen of people pleasing, Melissa. Now, she is going to be diving into this topic and helping us to unpack it and discover what it is that makes us people please and how we can go about healing it. So if you want to heal your people pleaser, then this is an episode where I think you’re going to want to get your notepad out and make lots of notes.
Alexia Leachman [00:01:21]:
Now, speaking of wanting to heal your.
Alexia Leachman [00:01:24]:
People pleaser, if this is something that.
Alexia Leachman [00:01:26]:
You really do want to do, then listen up, because next week I’m doing a 14 day live healing experience. And this is your opportunity to join me in a group where people are going to be healing whatever they want. But if people pleasing is the thing that you want to heal, then this is the perfect opportunity to do that because it means that we can dive into this for you. Uncover what it is that you’re wrestling with. Exactly, and then I’ll give you exactly what you need to heal the people pleaser within you. This is a fantastic 14 day experience. And when I ran this before Christmas, the shifts that people were experiencing were just off the charts. There were people that were letting go of some of their sabotaging patterns.
Alexia Leachman [00:02:11]:
There were people healing their inner childhood wounds.
Alexia Leachman [00:02:14]:
Now.
Alexia Leachman [00:02:14]:
And also, if you’re familiar with my ladder of healing and the five different levels on the ladder of healing, then you’ll be interested to know that most people who took part in the healing experience jumped up one notch on the ladder, which is pretty significant actually. Some people spend years of therapy and don’t achieve such a leap. And there were people in the group doing that in 14 days. So if you’re looking to really bring about a massive shift in how you feel, to let go of some of the anxieties, maybe the things that are stopping you from sleeping, and you really want to shift your consciousness, then this 14 day healing experience could be just what you need.
Alexia Leachman [00:02:55]:
Okay.
Alexia Leachman [00:02:56]:
Now, if you’re interested and you want to find out more about that, then just head over to the clearyourheadtrash.com website, and there’s a great big banner across the bottom of the screen that you can click on and find out more about it. And if you’re quick, you might catch one of the last remaining half price.
Alexia Leachman [00:03:10]:
Tickets before they go.
Alexia Leachman [00:03:12]:
All right, now back to today’s episode, which is all about people pleasing. Now, this is such a common thing that so many people struggle with just saying no to people and having your diary full of stuff that you don’t even want to be doing because you just can’t stop saying no, or you don’t stand up for yourself. Maybe you don’t speak up because you’re worried about conflict. These are the traits of people pleasing. So this episode is where we dive into all of that and help you to unravel this for yourself. So, are you ready? Here’s the time that I spoke to Melissa all about people pleasing and how we can heal this within us.
Alexia Leachman [00:03:55]:
Hello, Melissa. Welcome to the podcast.
Melissa [00:03:57]:
Hi. Thank you for having me.
Alexia Leachman [00:03:59]:
So we’re going to be diving into the brilliant topic of people pleasing today, and I think this is one that so many people are going to resonate with. So this is a show, a topic, an episode, whatever, that everyone’s going to want to dial into, because I think we can all learn something that we’re going to be chatting about what you’re going to share today. So before we dive into that, Melissa, would you mind just telling us a little bit about you so that we know more about Melissa and how come you’re doing this work that you’re doing today?
Melissa [00:04:25]:
Yeah, for mean, of course, I went through my own people pleasing journey, but the switch for me that made me want to get into coaching specifically was when I was working as a registered massage therapist. So I was going along my own journey with people pleasing. And then while I was in school for massage therapy, we learned a lot about therapeutic relationships and not working, like trying to avoid transference. So that means setting healthy boundaries with our clients, even though we’re working with them on an intimate level and we’re taking on a lot of the problems the body problems that they’re struggling with.
We had to learn to keep an empathetic but professional distance. And I started using those tricks in my own life along with the other healing that I was doing. And it was really incredible, the effect that it had on me and my journey. But more than that, when I got into actually treating my patients, I noticed the physical symptoms.
Melissa [00:05:18]:
So I was seeing the usual stuff. You go to a massage therapist for sore muscles, tenseness, shoulders up by your ears, trouble sleeping, stiffness. But it was all coming back to being formed from a root of emotional dysregulation, or nervous system dysregulation. And when you have that dysregulation in your body, it gives those physical symptoms. And so I got tired, I shouldn’t say got tired, I still loved it, but I was only treating a symptom of the root cause. And here in Canada, you can’t. As a massage therapist, there’s no overlap with mental health. We are not able to work within mental health at all, because it’s just an entirely separate scope from the medical work that we do.
Melissa [00:06:02]:
And I decided that I didn’t want to just do the symptom treating anymore. I wanted to be able to help people to get to the root of why they were feeling so tight and tense and dysregulated, instead of just making the body feel better. So that was the big kind of switch flip for me to realise that I wanted to get into coaching and do this work. I wanted to help people kind of get to the bottom of the mental roots rather than just popping a band aid on the physical pain they were experiencing.
Alexia Leachman [00:06:32]:
Yeah. So when it comes to people pleasing, then let’s start with some of the telltale signs. I think a lot of us can go, oh, yeah, I. People, please. But that feels like a very broad umbrella. And actually it can manifest and show up in lots of ways. And maybe there’s somebody listening to this going, oh, don’t do that. No, I’m not.
Alexia Leachman [00:06:49]:
People, please. I’ve just put that behind me and maybe they haven’t really. So let’s kind of lift the skirt or lift the lid on people pleasing so we can kind of come up with maybe some telltale signs or obvious ways that maybe you might be people pleasing, and maybe some of the less obvious ways. So where do you want to start?
Melissa [00:07:06]:
So we’ll start with the obvious ways. The big obvious ways are a lot of saying yes when you mean no, a sense of obligation that isn’t really there. Like if somebody asks you to do something, you have this sense of obligation that you have to do it. And there’s a big difference between something that you have to do and something that you’re doing because you fear the results of not doing it. You have to go to certain events in life, you have to go to certain things, but you don’t have to go to every birthday lunch, every brunch in every kid’s birthday party. You don’t have to be at those. So this sense of obligation that underlies all the choices that you’re making, that’s one of the most obvious signs of people pleasing. Some of the less obvious signs, though, are doing things out of a sense of transactionality.
Melissa [00:07:52]:
So when you’re like, I did this, so this person should feel this way, like I did this, so they shouldn’t be angry anymore, or I did this, and then they shouldn’t feel sad or upset, or they should be kinder to me or show up for me in this way. That sense of transactionality is also a people pleasing mechanism because you’re trying to mitigate the behaviour of others, not necessarily from a way of being intentionally manipulative, but you’re trying to use your actions to keep people either happy or happy with you.
And then so you’re not being authentic, you’re shaping the way you’re behaving for other people. Another one that people might not notice right away is actually reflecting your own people pleasing back. So a sense of guilt when you’re asking to have your needs being met is a lot of times a reflection of your own lack of boundaries. You assume that other people have trouble saying no when they need to. And so you’re afraid to ask for things because you assume that because you would have trouble saying no, they will also have trouble saying no. So even though you’re not necessarily people pleasing when you ask, that sense of guilt or that fear of asking for things in and of itself comes from a people pleasing root.
Melissa [00:09:05]:
Those are a couple of ones that maybe people like you said might be like, I don’t people, please. But I never ask to have my needs met. I never ask for things.
Alexia Leachman [00:09:14]:
Well, that last one is so like, I would have been that person. Oh, yeah, no, don’t do people. I’m quite happy saying no. But that last one, that asking for stuff, definitely, I’m like, that totally resonated with me, this idea of this sense of boundaries. So let’s dive into boundaries a bit more because boundaries is another topic that I think is a huge part of this, that maybe people really struggle to kind of really fully understand what that means exactly. Having these boundaries, or. What do poor boundaries look like in your review? What do they look like?
Melissa [00:09:45]:
Yeah. So, poor boundaries. First of all, there’s a couple of different types and levels of boundaries. Boundary setting is very much a spectrum. But to have poor boundaries, it does look like saying yes when you mean no. That’s the obvious one that we think of. But it also means picking up emotional junk head trash that isn’t yours. It means not having the ability to separate what isn’t your.
Melissa [00:10:12]:
My favourite saying is not my circus, not my monkeys, but like, not being able to separate what monkeys are yours and trying to pick up and solve everybody’s problems. Poor boundaries can also look like just a lack of setting boundaries around physical things, like always lending your stuff out, lending money, lending. That’s poor boundaries as well. Especially if it’s putting you at a detriment. If you’re coming from a place of overflow, giving is a lot easier. But if you’re coming from a place where all of your giving is at a detriment, all of that is poor boundaries. Whether it’s money, time, whether it’s your emotional state, that’s what poor boundaries looks like, is giving, or showing up in a way that is detrimental to you, either in the sense of burnout or financially or what have you.
Alexia Leachman [00:10:59]:
So there’s a personal cost going on in terms of. Yeah, when people are finding it hard to say no, because I don’t know if we could distil the idea of people pleasing. It is just learning the art of saying no. Is that simplifying it too much? Or if you had to distil the idea of covering as a people pleaser, very simplified.
Melissa [00:11:23]:
But it would work, I would say, more than the act of saying no, I would say it’s the act of choosing yourself, because it’s not always saying no, but it is learning to prioritise your needs. Even if so, you can still say yes. But as long as your needs are met. So it’s not so much like saying no is important. But I would say more than that. The root is choosing you.
Alexia Leachman [00:11:53]:
And so choosing you, then, when I’ve been working with people, they stumble on this point, because then they think they’re being selfish, and then for them, selfish is a bad thing. They don’t see it, that actually it’s got good aspects. Selfish has got a bit of a bad reputation because it kind of looks like the bad boy in the group. And really, it’s not because selfishness kind of is very closely related to selflessness and being selfless, but also it touches on self centred. It’s kind of, it’s like putting yourself first or putting yourself in the centre. There’s lots of nuances going on here, but actually being selfish has good and bad sides. Just like being generous has good and bad sides. Right.
Melissa [00:12:39]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:12:41]:
What advice or how do you help people get over this kind of worry that they might have that by choosing self or putting themselves first. How do they reconcile that with their maybe fear of not wanting to be selfish?
Melissa [00:12:54]:
Yeah, so kind of two ways. Usually in the very beginning when I’m working with people, I just straight up try and be like, just embrace it instead of flipping. Sometimes it’s very hard to take an opinion someone holds and be like, okay, now think the opposite. So you think selfish is bad, but really it’s good. It can be hard to flip people one. And usually I just start with being like, just embrace it. Like, yes, I’m being selfish today. Take that on.
Melissa [00:13:18]:
Sometimes that makes it a little bit softer in their minds and their brains to make these decisions, but a lot of times it’s easier to compare it to the way they would treat other people. So you wouldn’t generally tell somebody else, like, you didn’t work enough today, so you don’t deserve to rest. You would never say that to your mum or your sister, like, you didn’t work hard enough, you don’t deserve to rest, or you didn’t do enough for somebody else, you don’t deserve to say no. So kind of flipping it to be like, how would you treat somebody else in this situation? And very often it’s much kinder than you would treat yourself. So kind of flipping that to be like, see, you’re not being selfish by taking a break or saying no. If you flipped that and your best friend said to you like, look, I really can’t take that on for you right now. I have so much going on in my own life. Generally, you wouldn’t be like, oh my God, you’re awful, friend.
Melissa [00:14:08]:
You would be like, oh my gosh, totally understand. But we don’t do that for ourselves. We think if we say no or we say we’ve got too much going on, we’re being selfish by not putting the other person first. So those are the two kind of prongs. Like you said, there’s nothing wrong with being selfish. So in the beginning, just embrace it. It can be hard to flip the switch. So just be like, yes, I’m going to be selfish about this today.
Melissa [00:14:31]:
And that’s okay, because like you said, there’s no inherent badness. I don’t believe in good and bad emotions or good and bad. They’re all a spectrum, and everything has to occur in moderation. So selfishness is the same, but for people to kind of understand that it isn’t a bad thing or that they’re not doing something wrong, often looking at it through the lens of how they would see it with somebody else kind of flips that switch for them. Because very rarely would a people pleaser say to other people the things they say to themselves when they’re forcing them to pour from an empty cup.
Alexia Leachman [00:15:05]:
Yeah. And so if you were to kind of take that a little bit deeper, you think about, well, I want to rest because I’ve worked too hard. And then a kind of natural next possible thing in the head is, well, I don’t deserve it. I don’t deserve. And so then there’s a sense of being deserving, or am I worth. So we hit a new level of fun in terms of healing when we get to those places, because that’s a bigger beast to kind of get past.
Melissa [00:15:31]:
Absolutely. And that’s exactly it. People pleasing is a bigger beast. And a lot of people, I love the layers that we’re going through in this way. So you start with people think, oh, I’m a people pleaser. I just need to learn to say no. And really you need to pull it apart, because at the root of people pleasing, it’s usually I need to decide that I’m worthy. I need to decide that all the parts of me are inherently worth loving.
Melissa [00:15:59]:
I need to decide that I am a person who values xyz, kindness and honesty and whatever your personal values are, and that I get to bring those values forward, and it’s safe to bring those values forward. So now, like you said, we’re looking at roots of safety, belonging, like beating those fears. And so, like you said, it’s a whole different beast when you get to the root. Boundaries are the part that everybody gets excited about because they feel like they’re the magic solution, but the magic solution.
Alexia Leachman [00:16:30]:
Is the inner work, for sure. So going deeper then in terms of this, I feel like there’s probably some traumas hiding, lurking beneath the surface with the people pleaser. You’re nodding. So for those that aren’t watching, she’s nodding yes. I’m nodding enthusiastically. Enthusiastic.
Melissa [00:16:49]:
Because there’s always some variety of trauma. And whether it’s. The one thing I really like to stress is whether it’s big t trauma. Like, a lot of people grow up with narcissistic households or households with people with mental illness or addiction, where you get that big t trauma, where it was never safe to express your needs or your emotions, or you learned that the people around you were unsafe, like, their emotions were unsafe to experience. So that can definitely be a route, but you can also have little t trauma. And for me, a lot of my people pleasing came from little t trauma, where it was little things that I picked up that weren’t necessarily what you might flag in your brain as traumatic. For me, I was like, I had a good childhood. I had loving parents.
Melissa [00:17:34]:
They were stable. I had a lot of really healthy things going on. But I still picked up these people pleasing patterns because that was how my mom was, a people pleaser. My mom loved by. She showed her love by sacrificing. My mom went all in. My mom never said no. My mom did everything she could to take away my pain and my struggle.
Melissa [00:17:53]:
And I learned that was how you love. And so there’s those little tiny bits in there where when I think back, I’m like, did I have a traumatic childhood? My brain is like, no, I had a great childhood, but there was still these little pieces that I picked up. Another thing with people pleasing can be if you were always praised as a child for how independent you were, how much like, how together one of those kids, I’m sure lots of your listeners can relate. You’re like, oh, you’re an old soul, or you’re so. That kind of thing. You’re so independent. And they were praised for that. You can take that on board and be like, oh, independent, good, asking for help, bad, doing it on my own, good, needing support, bad.
Melissa [00:18:38]:
Those are the little moments that you can pick up. So 100%, there is almost always trauma at the root.
Alexia Leachman [00:18:44]:
So I call these the micro traumas. And you’re absolutely right. A lot of us walk on by when people go, oh, yeah, that’s unresolved trauma. Because you kind of look at your life and go, well, I haven’t got any of those. Thank God for that. Move on. But actually, when you start going, well, how about micro traumas? And they go, okay, well, now that you mention it, I’ve got a tonne of those. And the problem with these is that we don’t remember these experiences that, yes, you might go, oh, yeah, like you said, oh, my mum was blah, blah, blah, blah, and she did this.
Alexia Leachman [00:19:14]:
So you remember how she was and the kind of things that you probably lived through but to pick out one event or one moment would probably be really hard because.
Melissa [00:19:23]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:19:23]:
It happens so many times. But you know that you have lots of experiences of that time that she made you. She went to the nth degree to make a really nice lunch and even though she’s rushed off her feet, whatever it was, these signs of sacrifice that mums can do. And so yeah, all these events are going to stack up. And so I think it’s kind of opening your mind to the fact that you have got a pile of micro traumas going on and maybe you don’t know what they are as an inherent event, like a traumatic event in invented commas. But you know that you’ve learned these, they’ve brought meanings for you, you’ve internalised meaning. Oh well that means, like you said, being independent is good, asking for help is bad. And suddenly it’s about making like reconciling these two things going actually maybe I can ask for help and that doesn’t mean that I’m a weak person.
Alexia Leachman [00:20:13]:
And actually being weak isn’t a bad thing. It’s okay, there’s nothing wrong with being soft.
Melissa [00:20:19]:
There’s nothing wrong with. Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:20:22]:
And I think we have to flip the script and do look at some of these opposite meanings and maybe make friends with them or make peace with them.
Melissa [00:20:30]:
That’s exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:20:31]:
Kind of learn to embrace, as you were saying, learn to embrace being selfish, embrace being, asking for help, like making that an okay thing. Maybe going through your childhood, is that how you would recommend people to can maybe kind of gain a bit more self awareness for want of a better word, where it’s like, well if I can’t remember in these individual events, but I knew my childhood had these kind of experiences, what are some of the ways that you might encourage somebody to maybe raise their level of self awareness to kind of have an inkling of an understanding as to where this stuff might be coming from for them because that can be really helpful for people to kind of go oh, that’ll be why I’m this. And that might also mean I’m doing this. Okay. And then the rabbit hole can, the.
Melissa [00:21:17]:
Chain of events starts to unfold. So I talk a lot in the coaching community especially, you hear the word limiting words, limiting beliefs thrown around quite a bit and that’s kind of where I start, the focus. But the way I explain it is precisely what you just said. So a limiting belief is a point in time where something happened and your brain went ah, independence, good, helping, bad. So instead of saying necessarily because sometimes people can get a little overwhelmed if you’re like, all right, let’s go right back to your childhood and start analysing everything that happened. It can be a little bit big and overwhelming, so it’s easier to kind of pull down the big things people struggle with. So using the same example, like, okay, you struggle with asking for help. So somewhere along the line, you learned that asking for help was bad and being independent was good.
Melissa [00:22:07]:
So can you think of a couple of examples in your life that proved that theory? And then usually, like you said, that’s where they’ll start rolling back. Well, when I was a kid, I was told I was praised a lot for not needing help. Or when I was a kid, my siblings needed a tonne of help, and I didn’t. So I felt like I was helping my parents by not asking for help because they could help my siblings. Usually then they’ll start to self identify the moments that solidified that belief for them in their brain. And that opens up, like you said, that self awareness of, like, oh, and then this happened. I also learned that sacrificing so that my siblings could have more was better. They’ll start to pick out those moments that support other limiting beliefs that they have.
Melissa [00:22:52]:
And then from there, it’s just a matter of, okay, how do we disprove those beliefs? How do we show your brain that that particular piece of information is no longer relevant or no longer helping us, and we bring on board that new piece of information, which, like you said, is it’s not weak to ask for help. And, in fact, weakness in and of itself isn’t bad. Softness isn’t bad, and it allows you to kind of pick that apart. Like, okay, so now we think this is weak, and weak is bad. So where did we learn our idea of weakness? And then you start to fall deeper and deeper, usually into your childhood.
Alexia Leachman [00:23:26]:
It feels like this could be one of those things where you just pull at a thread going, oh, I just need to say no more. And then, oh, hang on. Where is this leading?
Melissa [00:23:34]:
What is all of this?
Alexia Leachman [00:23:36]:
I often use the metaphor of a magician pulling out those kind of hangerties. You’re like, oh, look. And then it’s like, oh, hang on a minute. It just keeps on coming. This is. We’re never getting to the end of this one. I feel like the people pleasing kind of surface issue could be exactly one of those where once you start, you end up going very deep indeed. But actually, I suspect that for those people that choose to kind of pull that as far as it goes, it can be incredibly transformational to kind of get to the root, root, root of all of that and heal all of that.
Alexia Leachman [00:24:09]:
Talk to me about maybe some of those kind of turnarounds that you’ve been a witness to in people.
Melissa [00:24:14]:
Yeah. So I think the biggest one is how much more just overall peace people feel. So it’s kind of like you said, people pull that scarf thinking that they’re just going to say no more. Like, oh, I can just say no to a couple more things and maybe have some more free time. But what they really end up with is this deep ability to understand and relate to, like, empathise with the people in their lives. Sorry, hiccup. On a healthier level. And so instead of just learning to say no, they’ve actually learned to live life from a state of.
Melissa [00:24:48]:
This is the constant feed. Like, the feedback that I get the most of is that they feel less reactional and more like they can kind of sit and make decisions that make more sense for them. They get this sense of peace because life feels less like it’s happening to you and more like you’re a part of it. And you get to make these decisions based on your needs and wants and desires at the time. So this level of calmness, I think, is the biggest turnaround that I consistently hear back from people that I work.
Alexia Leachman [00:25:17]:
With, which is that nervous system regulation that you touched on at the beginning.
Melissa [00:25:21]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:25:23]:
So less triggered, calmer, more mindful. Actually, maybe more mindful side. Hang on. How do I want to respond here? What’s right for me? What do I want? What’s right for me? What’s going to make me happy? Right. I’m going to cheque in with that first. Before I weighed in here and previously I would have.
Melissa [00:25:42]:
When somebody brought this and I had to maybe set this boundary or explain how I feel, that field feel, explain how I feel. They would go into that fear of conflict, that fight or flight response, whereas now they’re not going into that. Or they can feel it coming and they have the tools to kind of back away from it and then open a dialogue with that person instead. Where in a people pleasing life or environment, there’s generally not a lot of dialogue. We’re holding on to a lot of our resentments. We’re holding on to like, well, I don’t want to do this, but I’m going to do this. And I’m mad at this person for not knowing these needs that I’ve never expressed. And when you learn then to stop people pleasing, that just goes away.
Melissa [00:26:23]:
And so relating to people and living in general comes with more ease. And almost always your relationships, all of them, get better. I think there’s this underlying fear that setting boundaries and stopping people pleasing will create friction in relationships because you’re not helping anymore. And again, for people who aren’t watching, there’s some air quotes around helping there for sure.
But it’s the opposite. You almost always will see a drastic improvement in all of your relationships. Not to say some won’t fall away because unfortunately, some relationships are benefiting from your over giving. But most people are happy to see you become happier.
Melissa [00:27:05]:
The people who love you want you to be happier.
Alexia Leachman [00:27:08]:
It reminds me what you’re saying about archetypes and how some people want to be the hero or the fixer or the rescuer, this kind of wanting to wade in and help somebody. But often people that behave in that way, they’ve got this kind of compulsive need to be the person that goes in to help and to rescue. But some people don’t want rescuing or they don’t want fixing.
Melissa [00:27:26]:
Most people don’t.
Alexia Leachman [00:27:28]:
Exactly. So when you’re wading in with your kind of wanting to make them happy and do the things, suddenly you can become the villain very quickly because they’re like, well, no, stop interfering, sticking your nose in. I didn’t ask for this. I’m just venting my day. I didn’t solve my life’s problems. And then suddenly you’re not being the hero or the rescuer and you flip into villain and then they lay into you and then suddenly you flip into victim mode because you’re like, well, hang on a minute. I was just trying to help.
Melissa [00:27:56]:
Exactly. I was just trying to do this. But they didn’t want you to and you never asked. You assumed that. Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:28:03]:
So I can see that this healing of people pleasing and you mentioned relationships. And so that seems to me like a really obvious benefit. And that’s going to affect your personal relationships with kids. I imagine that the repercussions with kids can be quite phenomenal, actually. But I’m wondering whether people pleasing shows up in other areas outside of.
And I know relationships is pervasive. It’s kind of everything. But whether or not, in terms of the work life that you have, how do you see it show up for people at work? What kind of things might they be seeing in their work life as they are total people pleasers?
Melissa [00:28:40]:
Yeah, absolutely. So as a people pleaser in your work life, there’s usually a sense of in the beginning kind of like we were saying, like resentment, some burnout, some overwhelm, because there’s very rarely a project you won’t take on. There’s very rarely a piece when someone’s like, hey, I can’t do this. Can you take this particular ticket or what have you? And you’re like, yes, I can do it. So there’s that sense of overwhelm. But there’s also usually a big imbalance in the work life balance. And it’s interesting in the sense of the archetypes that you were talking about, one of the other forms of people pleasing. So there’s the hero.
Melissa [00:29:16]:
There’s people who want to be the hero, the fixer, the strong one, but there’s also people who pour their people pleasing into being the successful one, the CEO, the ladder climber. That’s also a form of people pleasing, and it becomes your identity. So then anything that seems less successful, like it might hurt your job chances, like it might be unproductive, like saying no, not staying late, not leaving on time.
All of those things start to show up, and they might only affect you if you have, like you said, kids and a partner and things, it affects them to an extent, but you could be a single person. So these aren’t necessarily affecting relationships, but they’re affecting your own balance. This never leaving work on time, never saying no, answering your work emails, even at 11:00 p.m. That sense of lack of boundaries, because your identity hinges on being productive or successful. And so that’s a way in which work, it can show up.
Melissa [00:30:15]:
And then, so the flip side of that, which I think is what you were asking with the question here, is, like, when you are starting to manage your people pleasing, then you start to be able to create this work life balance. And so work starts to feel, hopefully you’re in a field that you enjoy. Work starts to feel good again. You get to show up and do the things that are your job. You get to delegate the things that aren’t. You get to leave work on time so that when you go back to work, you didn’t just leave there 3 hours ago, it starts to read like you feel more refreshed and rejuvenated and actually excited to get back into the things that you were doing.
Alexia Leachman [00:30:50]:
I think having had some of the work experiences that I’ve had, where there have been bosses and managers that have just expected this kind of late night working, and for you to kind of say no, actually, you’ve given me too much. This is too much me to get done in a week. You need to kind of, I’m pushing some of this back up the chain because you’re not managing, you might not say it this way, but actually what you’re trying to say is you’re clearly not managing your workload if you’re thing it all down to me, and that doesn’t make you a great manager. So obviously find nice ways of saying this, people not limiting that.
My experience was there’s definitely been a little bit of friction the minute you kind of impose a boundary or you kind of make it clear that there is a boundary there and you are not going to take this on. What advice have you got to people to help them navigate that? Because sometimes the reason they’re people pleasing is because maybe the fear of conflict or the fear of dealing with that kind of interaction and they don’t want to have a negative interaction, so they just try and keep everything really smooth and easy and happy and jolly and yay. And so the minute I’m going to say no, there’s going to be this. What do you mean? No.
Melissa [00:32:01]:
Alarm bells yet?
Alexia Leachman [00:32:02]:
Yeah. So how can people maybe, because this transition phase, I would imagine for many, could be quite tricky as they start to assert themselves and maybe put these boundaries in. And so how can people better manage that so it doesn’t feel as scary for them?
Melissa [00:32:16]:
Yeah, for sure. So two kind of pronged approach to that. The first one is almost always with boundaries. I will get people to start with boundaries for just themselves, boundaries that involve only their self care. So by the time that you’re taking boundaries out to managers, friends, family, you’ve already had a lot of practise working with yourself, which I know sounds silly, but honestly, fighting your own brain is the hardest part.
So when you’ve fought that battle, it’s a little bit easier to go out and fight the battle with other people and then having that really strong root of what matters to you and why you’re setting a boundary. Because then even when you do have, like you said, that maybe a little bit of friction or conflict with other people, you have this root of why you’re doing it. And it’s a lot easier to hold your boundaries and hold your convictions.
Melissa [00:33:03]:
When you have a really strong sense of why as opposed to just setting a boundary, you know you need to set it, but you haven’t really dug into the why. When people start to challenge it, you’re like, oh, wait, do I really need that? Or did I really need to? Maybe I can just say, okay, only a half an hour later instead of an hour, that’s where you find yourself compromising, but really just rolling your boundaries back to people.
Alexia Leachman [00:33:25]:
Please.
Melissa [00:33:25]:
Again. Whereas when you have this really strong sense of, like, no, I remember I’m setting this boundary because I know how tired I am and I know how much more. I’m just using the not staying late example for this. But I know that I’m never at home. My house is getting, falling into disrepair. I’m feeling crappy at home. These are all reasons that I know that I can’t stay late. So when you get that little bit of friction or blowback, you have something to fall back on.
Melissa [00:33:50]:
You’re like, right, okay. These are the reasons I’m bringing this forward. You can choose how much or a little to share. I always say this, when you’re setting a boundary, you have to share the boundary. So like, okay, I’m not staying at work anymore. I’m leaving when I’m supposed to leave. Now. This is my boundary.
Melissa [00:34:06]:
You don’t always have to share the why. The why can be for you, or you can share a little bit. So in a work situation, you might not want to share as much about your personal life and why you’re setting the boundary, but with friends, you might want to share a little bit more. Like, this is why.
This is what’s happening on my end, and this is why I’m setting this boundary. So that would be, I know it doesn’t sound like it would ease the friction, but it really does. Having a really good sense of why you’re setting a boundary, what need you’re meeting in yourself, by setting that boundary, it allows the conflict to, it doesn’t necessarily change the way the interaction goes, but it changes the way you feel about it. Like you said, it changes that.
Melissa [00:34:45]:
Ooh. Response into like, no, okay, I need this and I can do this. It takes a little bit of the reactivity out of it.
Alexia Leachman [00:34:52]:
Yeah. And I think also where there might be some managers, because there are a lot of managers that are not great, let’s put it that way, who are not going to take, make that. Then they’re going to be like, well, no, the reason that you haven’t, I’m giving you this is because you didn’t do it well in the first place, that it’s down to you.
Melissa [00:35:05]:
You.
Alexia Leachman [00:35:06]:
And they’re going to kind of deflect. And so it’s maybe kind of preempt that to a degree because that could easily undermine somebody that goes, oh, I’m no good at my job. It’s all my fault. I really ought to do this because actually it’s all my fault and I’m rubbish. And that’s where they go to, rather than. No, actually, I’m really good at my job. The reason that I didn’t get this done in time is because so and so in accounts sat on this for a week and whatever. And again, it’s not about making blame, putting blame anywhere else, but it’s about being really clear about having asked yourself those questions already.
Alexia Leachman [00:35:36]:
Did I do my best? Why is this not getting done? And just being very clear so that you’re then prepared for a conversation.
Melissa [00:35:43]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:35:44]:
Rather than you go down to this, kind of, like, I must be terrible at my job, everything’s crap.
Melissa [00:35:51]:
It’s all my fault. Yeah.
Alexia Leachman [00:35:52]:
So maybe just having a little bit of thought about to preempt, maybe the manager that might be quite insistent and wants.
Melissa [00:35:58]:
Exactly. And preparing yourself, like you said, having that. So for me, when I was saying the why, that’s part of it. But also, like you said, in a work situation, cya cover your butt. Look at, like you said, how you’ve done, like, okay, no, well, here is my specs or my requirement for this job. And if you look, I’ve actually met all of the specs or requirements for this particular project. However, the hold up, like you said, know there was miscommunication within the timeline. Or like you said, you might not throw Steve from accounting under the bus, but you might say there was definitely a hold up when it was over in this area, and it came to me at this point, and at this point, I have XYZ on my plate and I can’t manage 20 accounts at once.
Melissa [00:36:37]:
It’s beyond, you know what I mean? And you can even bring in sometimes, especially in work and corporate bringing in a bit of a solution that even if they end up making it their idea, but saying like, okay, well, I can’t manage all of this, this and this, but this section is actually something that could be delegated to accounting or customer service or whatever it is that you work with.
Alexia Leachman [00:37:04]:
Again, thinking beyond the end of your nose, I guess it’s really just kind of, if you’re thinking about putting up these boundaries in place, just creating an environment or setting it up so that you get success that’s going to be meaningful for you, so that it guarantees that you can maintain that boundary, because then once you are able to do that, your sense of self will just transform very quickly and your sense of confidence, which will actually come back into the workplace will make you better what you’re doing, right?
Melissa [00:37:32]:
Yeah, it snowballs together. So confidence. One of the things I love to remind people is that confidence comes from doing. It’s not like you are going to wake up one day and be like, now I’m confident enough. You do the things, you set the boundaries, you show up. Like you said, you change the way you talk about yourself and think about yourself. And from each of those actions, each of those choices, you build more and more confidence. The choices are what builds the confidence.
Melissa [00:37:57]:
You don’t wake up with enough confidence one day to change your life. You start changing your life piece by piece and become more confident. And like you said, in that case, it shows up in your work, it shows up in your relationships, it shows up in the way that you interact with the world. And that then creates an entirely new reality, for lack of a better term, it changes the way that you are experiencing life and going through life. So stage by stage, everything feels different.
Alexia Leachman [00:38:25]:
So do you think a lack of confidence is kind of maybe a fundamental part of people pleasing? Do you think it’s a little bit more complex than that?
Melissa [00:38:32]:
No, I think it is. And I think it goes back to kind of, like you said, those deep roots before. That lack of confidence comes from a lack of identity outside of whatever archetype that you’ve chose. Like chosen. Usually we didn’t actively choose it. It’s something that we formed much earlier. But that lack of confidence, like, if you are only the CEO or the successful one or the strong one or the helper, and you don’t have an identity outside of that, it’s very difficult to be confident because your confidence depends entirely on how much you can do for the external world, for others or your job or what have you. So naturally, there’s not a lot of confidence there because there’s not a lot going on.
Melissa [00:39:15]:
You don’t know a lot about who you are or what matters to you. And it’s very hard to be confident in yourself as a person when you don’t have really a very good idea of who you are. And so, yeah, I would absolutely say that was a long answer. The short answer is, yeah, I would say confidence has a lot to do with it because it’s really hard to be confident when you’re a chameleon instead of when you’re yourself.
Alexia Leachman [00:39:36]:
Yeah, getting to know yourself better, really tuning into what, and I guess also getting to know yourself is really about getting clear on what your values are, what’s important to you, because how can you put a boundary up on the value line. If you don’t know what your values are, it feels like a very important stage before you can really. It is knock the people cheese out. The park is knowing you and being authentic and having clear values.
Melissa [00:40:04]:
Exactly. So it is the stage. I call it the foundation. And anybody who a lot of your listeners probably haven’t necessarily know a lot about the way I teach, but if you watch my social media, I say it a lot. Boundaries setting. Boundaries. And the spectrum of boundary setting. I like to liken it to building a house.
Melissa [00:40:21]:
So the boundaries are the fence. They control what you will and won’t allow in. But if there’s nothing going on in there, if you don’t have the house built or if the foundation is shaky, everything can crumble really easily. The foundation of the house, of the big, important structure that you’re taking care of, is your sense of self. And so to work, before you can do anything else, the saying, no, the boundary setting, all of that, you have to build that foundation. You have to have a really strong sense of exactly like you said, what you value, who you are, what you stand for, and what life you actually want. Not the life that you think you need, the strong one, the helper, and the successful one, but what you actually want. Then the boundary setting comes into place, because like you said, how can you set a boundary around what you need or want if you don’t know what that is?
Alexia Leachman [00:41:09]:
Yeah. Do you come across any resistance? I imagine the answer is yes. But people are like, we. I want to get rid of this people pleaser thing, but they’re equally that in the one hand, they kind of want to go towards that, but they’re also foot on the brakes, and they’re massively resisting doing whatever it is that’s going to get them over the fence to be on the side of people pleaser land. What does that look like?
Melissa [00:41:34]:
Yeah, so that looks exactly like you said. That looks like generally, especially in the beginning, people come in and they’re like, I just want boundaries. I don’t need any of the other stuff. I’m good. I just want boundaries. And then my people pleasing will be done, and it’s like, only how it works. So then when you start digging into those limiting beliefs, those archetypes, those identities, that’s where usually people start to hit the brakes, they start to pump the brakes there. And it’s because your nervous system at a base level, your nervous system’s job is to keep you alive.
Melissa [00:42:04]:
And if you are alive, it’s doing a good job. So these patterns and these limiting beliefs have kept you alive so far. Your nervous system has no desire to change them. So when you start pulling at them, like you said, that’s when these red alerts, these red flags, and they’re like, no, I don’t want to change that. I don’t need to change that. I just need this boundary or these specific words to say, and then I’m good. So again, we go back into the nervous system regulation. You go back into forming identities outside of the identities that you’ve stuck in.
Melissa [00:42:35]:
Because, yeah, almost everyone has a point where their unconscious mind will start hitting the brakes on the change they’re trying to create from people pleasing because it’s worked, quote unquote, until now.
Alexia Leachman [00:42:49]:
And I think also a fear of change, which a lot of people fear change, is going to be one of the big fears that stops them. Because if they fear change, they’re going to fear them changing and their world changing as a result of them changing. So that’s going to be, even though they want change, they also fear it, and they’re kind of caught.
Melissa [00:43:05]:
We think we want change, but we don’t because change is the unknown, and the unknown is unsafe. So we think we want it, but we don’t. We do, but we don’t. So you’re right. That’s a big hurdle is getting over and, and learning.
Alexia Leachman [00:43:21]:
Yeah. Spin people around and make them go around in circles. And I think when people say, oh, my goodness, go around in circles with this, that’s the kind of thing they go. They head towards a change door. And then I do want change. I do want change. Oh, no, actually, that’s scary. I’m going to run over here, keep things the same because that’s safe.
Alexia Leachman [00:43:33]:
And then that’s the kind of the treadmill that people can get stuck on. So how can they kind of jump over the fear? That’s the change one. What do you think works best for that?
Melissa [00:43:43]:
So small changes. Small changes first, especially, again, a lot of people want to jump in and be like, oh, I’ll just learn boundaries, and then I’ll be able to set boundaries with everyone in my life. And it’s like, okay, well, if you have never set a boundary before, jumping in and setting a boundary with your really mean corporate manager is probably not the first boundary to start with. Start with setting a boundary with yourself. Small changes. And then kind of like we were talking about earlier. So finding the moments, finding the things in your life that disprove those limiting beliefs. So finding when you’re like, I want change.
Melissa [00:44:16]:
Finding the places where you want the change and then finding the places where you’ve been actively working against the change and then building evidence towards the growth that you want to show your mind and body that that change is safe.
Alexia Leachman [00:44:31]:
Yeah.
Melissa [00:44:32]:
So creating. Just finding where in your life, like okay, I’ve been self sabotaging here but in this area I said no and I didn’t turn to dust and blow away. Look, it’s safe. When you find each of those pieces it’s easier.
Alexia Leachman [00:44:44]:
And also just maybe imagine that you just had a really bad haircut. And actually what you want more than anything is change and growth so that it grows out and you can now start looking different again.
Melissa [00:44:51]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:44:52]:
And recognising there are some aspects of your life that you seek out change. You actively want it, making peace with some of those things and go, oh actually I do like change. Exactly.
Melissa [00:45:05]:
It’s like putting a new storage, like putting a new file in for your brain to find. Like okay, my brain says change is bad but that change was good and that little change was good and that little change was good. And slowly your brain stops going change bad and goes, well, all those times were good. So change can be good.
Alexia Leachman [00:45:23]:
Yeah. So then you can start seek it out more actively and proactively. Exactly. In terms of the people pleaser conversation, is there any aspect that I haven’t asked you about that maybe I should have done that you think, aren’t she still not asked me about blah, blah, blah? Is there anything else that people need to know about people pleasing that maybe we haven’t covered?
Melissa [00:45:40]:
I think those are the biggest ones. The most important thing is understanding that there’s a root to it. It’s so much more than just saying no and setting boundaries. It’s really a journey of self discovery and coming into who you are. It’s a journey of authenticity more than it’s a journey of saying no. So that’s really important. And the other one, we’ve brought it up a few times, but again, just learning that a big part of getting away from people pleasing is learning your body on an anatomical level, on a science level of that nervous system regulation, understanding why certain events make you feel really panicky and how to get around that. Because our nervous system originally saw a threat and that threat was a tiger in the woods or a bear or whatever.
Melissa [00:46:26]:
Like we were living in situations where we ran into those and we don’t have that anymore, but our reactions have stayed the same. So understanding why we experience the panic that we do. And we’re relating how, we’re relating conflict or rejection or whatever to. We’re responding the same as we would to a bear in the woods and being like, oh, that’s why it feels so scary. It’s not because I’m. And again, we know there’s good and bad to both, but it’s not because I’m weak, it’s not because I’m incapable, it’s not because I’m this. This is my body reacting in the way that it’s supposed to. And if I can learn to work with that and regulate it, it will take the physical reaction out of the work that we’re doing.
Melissa [00:47:08]:
So working with your body is really important, which also means taking care of your body is important. That’s something we didn’t necessarily touch on. So all of the unsexy self care, the drinking enough water, the eating enough fibre, the walking three times a week for 20 minutes, that’s all work that you can do to start healing your people pleasing.
Alexia Leachman [00:47:30]:
Yeah. And that’s essential stuff, actually, because some people can really forget about that stuff, or that they might be doing the boundary stuff, and then they’re kind of like quietly having two glasses of wine every night and really sabotaging their own ability to succeed at what they’re trying, because they’re kind of undermining what their body needs to really be in a good place.
Melissa [00:47:49]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:47:49]:
I know. Because if you’re tired, not sleeping well, it takes a certain amount of emotional energy, certainly in the early days, to be able to say no and put those boundaries in because you kind of have to bring yourself, psych yourself up a bit and get a bit like, oh, okay, no, I’m going to say no this time. No, I’m definitely going to do that this time. And that requires you to kind of dig deep a bit. And if you’re knackered because you didn’t sleep well, so you have too much wine, you’re like, no, I’ll do that now. I can’t cope that today. I’m going to leave that today.
Melissa [00:48:13]:
Exactly.
Alexia Leachman [00:48:15]:
Supporting yourself in all the ways so that you can succeed at what you’re.
Melissa [00:48:18]:
Trying to do 100%. So I think that would be the biggest one that we didn’t touch on. And you don’t have to dive too much into it, but it is important to know that actually taking care of yourself, and like I said, it’s the unsexy side, it’s not the bubble bath and the face mask, but it’s a really important part of showing up for yourself in the way that you need to, to start prioritising yourself and putting yourself first.
Alexia Leachman [00:48:39]:
And it shows yourself that you are worth it. You’re showing yourself in a very important way that I don’t think bubble baths and face masks do. I think by really prioritising your personal health in that way is a really powerful message to yourself. I matter and I care about myself.
Melissa [00:48:56]:
Because I am worth taking care of. I am worth nurturing in this way. And it builds self trust. When you show up for yourself, your nervous system learns that it can trust you. And the more that you trust yourself, the more that you can set.
Alexia Leachman [00:49:09]:
Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Well, brilliant. Melissa, thank you so much for diving into this topic. It’s been brilliant. I’ve really enjoyed it. Now, where can people track you down? If they want to find out more and kick off their well, just get rid of their people pleaser for good. Where can they track you down?
Melissa [00:49:22]:
Yeah, for sure. So I’m on a couple of different social medias. You can find me on Facebook. I just use my name, Melissa Matson. But it will say, like on my profile, soul fire coaching, that’s the company, quote unquote, that I coach under. You can find me on Instagram under soul fire coaching. Now it is spelt S-O-L in French. That’s soleil for the sun.
Melissa [00:49:44]:
So soul fire coaching on Instagram. And I’m also on TikTok under the same name.
Alexia Leachman [00:49:49]:
Okay, wonderful. I’m going to have all the links and everything below the show notes and below the video for anybody to track you down. Thank you so much, Melissa. It’s been great.
Melissa [00:49:56]:
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was an awesome conversation.
Alexia Leachman [00:49:59]:
Brilliant.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:00]:
Wasn’t Melissa great? I love this conversation. Now, if you want to dive in and heal this people pleasing part that lives within you, then don’t forget to cheque out my 14 day healing experience. We kick off on March the 19th. So if you’re interested in healing this within you, then please do join me. I would love you to join me because one, we’re going to have a lot of fun, but secondly, because you could actually heal this within you and have some solid boundaries and benefit in all the ways that you can from having those strong boundaries.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:36]:
So if you want to find out.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:37]:
More about that healing experience, then head over to clearyourheadtrash.com and you will see.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:42]:
A banner at the bottom of the.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:43]:
Screen where you just click on that and you can get full details and reserve your spot. Hopefully see you there and if not.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:49]:
Then I’ll see you here next time.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:50]:
On the head trash and healing show. Bye for now.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:55]:
You’ve just been listening to me. Alexia here on the Head trash show. If you’d like to join me on.
Alexia Leachman [00:50:59]:
Your self healing journey, then let me invite you to join my clearance club. This is my self healing community and membership, where I provide you with everything you need to clear your head trash.
Alexia Leachman [00:51:09]:
And heal your wounds. And every month we come together for.
Alexia Leachman [00:51:12]:
Support on the group call.
Alexia Leachman [00:51:14]:
To find out more.
Alexia Leachman [00:51:15]:
Head over to clearyourheadtrash.com club.
Alexia Leachman [00:51:18]:
Until next time. Bye for now.
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